Curse

Desert Rose · May 31, 2010, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by miriforst

Why should warriors always be better at melee?

Because warrior is the only well designed melee profession in GW.
Nobody would mind if the assassin or dervish would be as powerful as a warrior if they wouldn't be one-trick ponys.

Reverend Dr · May 31, 2010, 11:37 PM // 23:37

My only complaint is that those sin skills are too effective for the amount of skill required to mash the button repeatedly.

HigherMinion · Jun 01, 2010, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

My only complaint is that those sin skills are too effective for the amount of skill required to mash the button repeatedly.

And Dev-hammer qlocking isn't easy?

Del · Jun 01, 2010, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

And Dev-hammer qlocking isn't easy?

yeah, dev hammer is as easy as pressing buttons as they light up.

Sirius Bsns · Jun 01, 2010, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Wait , no one is saying its uncounterable . In fact there are bloody hell lots of melee counter ( lot more than caster counters ) and Jagged has no bonus dmg and only has .... bleeding ? woah. I think it should stay like that.
I agree thou that FF have fast recharge, good damage bonus , its unblockable and quick activation time. Its bloody broken . It is without a doubt the better ( if not a top 3 ) offhand that sins have. They should nerf one of its aspects ... or 2. I would take out its quick activation time and make recharge 6 sec.

It'd make the weak-ass assassins even weaker, and it'd make Wild Strike the far better option again. You sure are the bright bulb when it comes to balance, ey?

Ghost Dog · Jun 01, 2010, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

My only complaint is that those sin skills are too effective for the amount of skill required to mash the button repeatedly.

Disagree with this and you're lying to yourself.

Fahhhh · Jun 01, 2010, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

My only complaint is that those sin skills are too effective for the amount of skill required to mash the button repeatedly.

PvE is button mashing for every class. Sins suck dick in PvP right now. I fail to see why your complaining.

Nerfing sin skills now would be the same as shooting a dead body

Bring back AoD sins plz Anet thanks very much

pinkeyflower · Jun 01, 2010, 08:48 AM // 08:48

It's the DPS the build is capable of and the small penalty for failing to hit. I hate these guys but nerfing them would make sins extremely weak.

Terrible Surgeon · Jun 02, 2010, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Its all about power creeping. If there were no melee spam builds in the game what would you do for pressure in PvP? Hex way? And if you nerfed spam builds/skills you would have to nerf healers or they would be Op. The whole enchilada would need reworked not just one bite of it.

Warriors run on adrenaline, this is why they can't be called a spamming class. What if assassins had some skills run off of adrenaline also? This would take care of the spamming, but they would need to up the dmg output somewhat to compensate for not being able to hit 123456 at will.
Warrior skills put out more DMG than assassin skills. But assassins can spam certain skills to make up for that. This is why you are upset.

Morphy · Jun 02, 2010, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

If they're spamming and Failing, then it's bad. If they're spamming and getting a good outcome, it's not.

Think of it like this: A popular Stoning elementalist build; you go Ebon Hawk-Stoning-Ash Blast on the phys then cover Blind with Weakness again.

If you just spammed it constantly on the one foe without tabbing or targeting properly, it's ineffective. If you weaken a foe but then they get cleaned before your Stoning hits them, it's ineffective.

It's all down to the execution.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I'm not claiming that spamming is always a bad strategy, I'm saying that builds that require you to spam all night long are not only terribly boring to play but also impossible to balance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Woooo +30 damage on top of dagger autoattacking every 3 seconds! Big numbers here!

>_>

Any warrior should be hitting for more simply autoattacking and hitting some random attack skills. As long as autoattacking under an IAS has such high DPS for a warrior, you can't honestly complain about the existence of some (pretty bad) spamming builds for other professions. R/As were bad because they literally would never run out of energy, and they had effectively permanent 33% speed boost / block coupled with 33% IAS / block. This...no. Enough whining already.

Again, I'm not talking about the POWER of these skills here, but about the way in which they're used. Your cute rant doesn't address that whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Assassins have roles: to KILL SH*T and FAST! If they're killing you fast, it means you aren't using Guardian, Natural Stride, any Tactics stances, etc.. and expect to win how? There's also a plethora of anti-melee skills and spells to subdues them. USE THEM. Quit your whining.

Also, The 1/2 cast attacks have no huge raw damage, only bleeding degen, interruption, or a weak bonus. Again, no HUGE damage that can overwhelm and instakill you.

So, stop being bad at the game, please.

Killing shit fast isn't considered a proper role in the game. In fact, anything that features 123456 or spamming on recharge is bad for the game. Warriors require positioning and field awareness to be effective, these mentioned Assassin builds don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arm

I can't understand if the op is trying to say the skills are too hard to defend against or make playing assassin too easy? either way I'm thinking this thread is a joke.
Either get some blocking/blind skillz if it's killing you or switch the skillz for others if u don't like using them. This is going nowhere tho.
I vote /closed

Your arguments are terrible.

If Assassins are the meta and Assassins feature mindless spam, then mindless spam becomes the standard way to play the game. No "changing builds" will fix that because then you will have a disadvantage against players that DO use these builds. Maybe this argument works for PvE, but it definitely doesn't apply to PvP in the slightest.

Your other "argument", my supposed inability to counter these kind of builds, isn't even worth answering because it's purely ad hominem. You having to use fallacies to back up your flawed statements just shows how ignorant you are of how this game works. Congratulations.

ajc2123 · Jun 02, 2010, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Killing shit fast isn't considered a proper role in the game. In fact, anything that features 123456 or spamming on recharge is bad for the game. Warriors require positioning and field awareness to be effective, these mentioned Assassin builds don't.

That's the assassin class dude. It either does that or dies. Only way to fix is a complete re-haul or deletion of the class. Neither of which will happen any time soon.

Fahhhh · Jun 02, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Again, I'm not talking about the POWER of these skills here, but about the way in which they're used.

Alright once again in PvE every class uses a spam build of some sort (pretty much). They are not currently an issue in PvP and so why waste the little time they put into balancing skills in this game on skills that are not even used in the current meta? Let them focus on shit that actually matters instead of fixing shit like this because you feel bored mashing jagged -> fox fangs.

o and bring back AoD sins please

Morphy · Jun 03, 2010, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

That's the assassin class dude. It either does that or dies. Only way to fix is a complete re-haul or deletion of the class. Neither of which will happen any time soon.

My point exactly. Assassins are currently broken, so why give them any effectiveness at all? It won't lead to good play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fahhhh

Alright once again in PvE every class uses a spam build of some sort (pretty much). They are not currently an issue in PvP and so why waste the little time they put into balancing skills in this game on skills that are not even used in the current meta? Let them focus on shit that actually matters instead of fixing shit like this because you feel bored mashing jagged -> fox fangs.

o and bring back AoD sins please

PvE is barely relevant, the fact that every class is a spamclass just tells you how broken it currently is and quite frankly always has been.

In PvP, I doubt bringing back AoD is a very good idea. That build, while requiring some level of skill, was extremely frustrating to play against. Turning Assassins into a class with superior mobility is fine with me, returning it to a class that is practically uncatchable even with snares isn't.

Terrible Surgeon · Jun 03, 2010, 09:12 AM // 09:12

So basically, if you had your way, assassins would be deleted?

HigherMinion · Jun 03, 2010, 09:36 AM // 09:36

The more spammable the skills, the faster the game moves; the more exciting it should be.

What Morphy seems to want is people to wand/chop eachother to death with 30s recharge skills as a way of balancing... Sounds awesome?

Tenebrae · Jun 03, 2010, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

It'd make the weak-ass assassins even weaker, and it'd make Wild Strike the far better option again. You sure are the bright bulb when it comes to balance, ey?

Yeah because assassins are weak , thats why in almost every update they are buffing all of its skills ....

... oh wait ... NO.

The only buffs sins have right now are to make some skills bloody broken and overpowered because of the multiple nerfs they got over the years.
My change wont make Wild Strike better ( and ofc not even by far ) because ( and read again ) i said that at least ONE of its aspects should be taken away , not all. Right now FF>WS in ALL aspects ( pfff stance removal ) and it shouldnt be like that.
Are you sure you got a clue about balance when you called sins weak ?

Morphy · Jun 03, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

So basically, if you had your way, assassins would be deleted?

No, I would re-design them to a highly mobile midline class. Assassins need an overhaul and no matter how you want to do this, these skills have no part in that reworked gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

The more spammable the skills, the faster the game moves; the more exciting it should be.

What Morphy seems to want is people to wand/chop eachother to death with 30s recharge skills as a way of balancing... Sounds awesome?

There is a major difference between skills that can be frequently used (Savage Shot can be used every 5 seconds, for example) and ones that you use whenever they recharge and have no drawback. The pace of the game has no direct relation to having skills require a brain to be effective.

While it's important to determine exactly how fast the game has to go to have gameplay that is both exciting on a small scale and on a large scale, it has no bearing on this specific thread.

Bobby2 · Jun 03, 2010, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

No, I would re-design them to a highly mobile midline class.

This what you're getting at?

Fahhhh · Jun 03, 2010, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

In PvP, I doubt bringing back AoD is a very good idea. That build, while requiring some level of skill, was extremely frustrating to play against. Turning Assassins into a class with superior mobility is fine with me, returning it to a class that is practically uncatchable even with snares isn't.

AoD sins are not unbeatable by any means. The added mobility is what gave people a reason to run them. Thats always been the way I thought of Assassin's; they are extremely mobile. Mobility is what makes this game fun and honestly AoD sins were probably the most balanced form of sin play this game has ever seen, other than being useless in PvP

Morphy · Jun 03, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

This what you're getting at?

No. That's a highly gimmicky spellcaster much in the style of a Fire Magic Elementalist that has no flexibility (Lyssa's Aura has to be maintained by spamming skills) or mobility (no speed boosts) at all. If anything, that's the opposite of what I meant.